Welcome to ITTSB Forum, extension and content sharing platform of ITTSB.EU Blog

Registration this is Free, to support this Blog please use our donation links available in our Blog page and forum.

Copyright Notice:  All content of this web site this is copyright protected.

Recent Posts

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Speaking of battery pack rebuild or buying a new, I have some thoughts to share.

First of I am supporter of Ni-CD cells because this technology regardless downsizes of it, this is superior for battery packs having self life of 5~6 years at people hands whom does not frequently use their tools.
I am electrician and not a carpenter, my rechargeable tool this is used occasionally, neither Ni-MH and neither Lithium cells they do survive after 24 months no matter of how gently they will be used.
Ni-MH and Lithium cells they are internally chemically active by far more than Ni-CD, chemical reaction alone this destroying battery cell to the point of total destruction even when a battery cell this stays unused.

Regarding Ni-MH battery packs of 9 & 12V for specific Bosch products, my professional advice this is do not buy them.
Firstly, you have no clue of whom made these Ni-MH cells.
Secondly, you have no clue if unbranded Chinese factory this paid any attention to add NTC protection this qualifying according to Bosch standards ( Charger technology of 90s).

Cordless power tool makers they are aware of limitations of Ni-MH and Lithium cells, but for them this is an opportunity, they will increase their profitability by selling more battery packs.
If you think of me as weird thinking person, I will re-insure you that there is by far more weird thinking people out there ...  there is a You-tube video in which a Russian guy this drilling small holes over Ni-CD cells so to add water in them ( refill of battery liquids level )  ;D ;D ;D       
Stupid people at European Union council they did recently declare Ni-CD as dangerous for the environment, but they did not consider of how many metric tons of Ni-CD they do pile up in to a year time, in comparison to innocent Ni-MH and Lithium cells, which they do create a triple amount as landfill waste in the form of dead batteries.
Battery recycle organizations does not invest that much at recycling small batteries especially when max profitability this comes from car batteries recycling.

In conclusion, while newer batteries technologies does not offer significant benefits to the end user, even so they are now cost more and they live less.
Neither it is wise to trash reliably build cordless tools, because battery packs this is now harder to find.

You may interested also to read these topics : ;)
Fake capacity Sub C Ni-Cd 2500mAh (eBay) - True capacity less than 900 mAh     

New Ni-CD drill battery Vinteky / tiggopower : Capacity tests - Mini Review
Next topic which I did explore this is about Bosch NTC thermistor inside 9,6V (& 12V) battery pack.

At 90s, Chinese electronic parts industry was in the kindergarten, and Bosch battery pack was using European made thermistor (Made by PHILIPS).
Unfortunately even me I do not have original 6.8K NTC because I lost over the years by rebuild my battery pack over and over.
My current basic charger does not use NTC protection, but now I am aiming at eBay about getting faster charger with NTC support, and if I do succeed, then I need to spent a bit more and get one Philips NTC thermistor or similar.

MAKITA battery packs also using NTC but this is 10K Ohm, and therefore this is not compatible for Bosch 9,6V or 12V Ni-CD that specific Bosch chargers expecting to cooperate with.
Wrong selection of NTC thermistor value this would cause problems, because charger this receives false information regarding actual battery cells temperature.
Wrong NTC will deliver fault alert and charger will not start or cut-off.
Bosch charger expects this to detect three conditions according to NTC and cells actual temperature:
a) Battery too cold
b) Battery temperature ambient 18~20C  (6.8K Ohm).
c) Battery overheated

Practically entire series of Bosch fast chargers, they work with smart electronic control.
They automatically detect battery pack voltage range,  they do charging by using pulses.
a) Pulse amplitude this defines output voltage.
b) Pulse duration this defines charging current (ampere).
c) Trickle charge this is just a different combination  (setup) of amplitude and duration (Pulse parameters).
What this technology of 90s smart electronic control this is missing, this is detection of internal battery resistance.  ;) 

PHILIPS brand this is no more in the market of electronics components, any lookup for Philips NTC at 6.8K this is a mater of existing stock, alternatively you may trust generic NTC but warranted results these will come if you find genuine Philips NTC.
My own quick research shown that Philips part code this is  2322-640-63682  Philips 640 series “accuracy line” color coded NTC disc thermistors for general temperature sensing and control applications.
Tolerance: ±5%
B-Value 3977 ±0.75% Ohm ( at 50 Celsius ) (attached datasheet of 1995)

(Alternative part could be Vishay code  2322-640-63682  6.8K )

Bellow there is a collection of very interesting pictures, and I would say extremely valuable in 2017.
You may see original NTC of Philips (red) and also of another unknown manufacturer 6.8K NTC that Bosch factory did use in their battery assembly line.
Last picture this is great example of NTC thermistor operating conditions. 
Bosch 2607224000 charger this is 1.3A and gives the impression that this is the father of AL60 & AL60 DV chargers.
It is made in West-Germany, and follows one wise design speaking of metallic contacts at charger compartment, contact points are wide as is battery contacts too.

Identical wide contact points they are also at my own (Slow charger Bosch 2607224200 this be 9,6V 400mA)

It does not makes sense even today of why Bosch changed product design about wide metallic pads and started to use thin contacts instead.

Chargers list with wide metallic pads:
AL60  - 2 607 224 152   1.4A
Bosch - 2 607 224 200   400mA
Bosch  - 2 607 224 000  1.3A
By assuming that I did steal proper pictures from what Google steal over the years,  here is my composed picture this demonstrating slight component level change between 33W & 44W AL60DV.

Addition of heat-sink at its one this is possible, but I would not do it with out carefully removing these two components from the PCB, so to not stress components leads.

In above message I did a good analysis of  two models of 33W ( AL60 & AL60 DV)
Next revision of AL60DV charger this is 44W 1.9A and at voltages range, much older 4.8V option this is now removed.

This AL60DV 44W charger can do  7,2V & 9,6V & 12V & 14,4V  (Bosch code 2607224275)
Circuitry this is identical to AL60 or and 60DV at 33W,  inner changes that Bosch did this is mainly two output transistors be replaced with ones having a bit larger case and  dimensions.
Inside main component still is a robust transformer.

For unknown reasons there is no available any datasheet  from old SANYO industrial Ni-CD 1,2V  so me to discover ultimate allowed charging current.
Within 2017 only information's available are about SANYO Cadnica,  this is 1800mAH and max charging current this is 2.7A
Therefore 1800 Cell & 2.7A max charging this math translates to C1,5 as Fast-charge rate.   
Alternatively 2000mAh confirmed cells they would do C1,5  at 3A.
In conclusion neither AL60DV 44W this can not be considered as battery-killer simply because this is not powerful enough.  :)
Finally I got one ...  :)
Banggood shipping plan was real and this arrived after 23 days.
Production date this is 28 September 2017.

Next step this is product testing:
1) With my Galaxy S5 (G900H) this using 5.3V system for fast charge activation.
2) Non-smart devices consumption tests.
3) Accuracy test at different loads 

My first visual impression after plugging it  for a first time, this is positive.
White back light this is soft and digits looking very sharp (good contrast).
Single digit dimension this is 6mm tall and 3mm wide, this is much smaller than primary digits in to a multimeter screen.
Such digits dimensions are mostly used for secondary parameter review in to a multimeter,  for example if you do own U1272A , temperature indication at top right corner this using close to identical in dimensions digits,  even so UT658 digits they are a bit more thinner and you need to step up closer to this gadget so to read it LCD display.   

Tiny carton box does not come with English instructions, specific production this is for mainland China distribution.
From the other hand about using it this is much easier than KCX-017  https://cdn.solarbotics.com/products/datasheets/kcx-017%20power%20bank%20testing.pdf   
I have few happy thoughts to share after testing my gadget, and mainly they are about success at air-cooling method that I did use.
ZS-PD9 with 12V as input and by this having an 24V output at 4A load and 8A consumption from the source (that is close 10A max), this managed to stay at 32C.
These news translates that I can use entire 160W Max of it potentials with out fear that this will be in flames.

Buck Voltage Converter this is a rough way of boosting or step down energy.
Noise level of produced DC this simile to orchestra of Asian drums, practically Buck Voltage Converter they can happily cooperate in applications in which another power supply will use their energy and feed it to the load.

For example specific module this is designed to serve mainly to voltage conversion of cars voltages.
12 -> 24
Other applications for it they are much rare,  as for example  24V ->36  or 24V -> 48V
In such rare applications it is expected temperature of the module to raise much higher than when this works at 12V->24,  my tests shown to me that at such condition even with out active cooling temperature never gets at dangerous limits for the health of active components (70 Celsius).

In an older experiment of my in which I did try to use ZS-PD9 as charger for the battery of my electric bicycle, by setting output voltage to 42V with input of 24V 10A, heat sink it did become extremely hot.
At this configuration I was wasting 240W of incoming energy and I was getting 42V and almost 3.2A ( about 150W ), therefore 100W were loses them converted in to heat.

In conclusion any Buck Voltage Converter this does boost or step-down more than 12V from the source voltage, this eventually it will heat up allot.
Many kids buying from eBay cheap Buck converter with LCD screen so this to be used as laboratory power supply,  but what they are not aware of, this is how much actual power in watts this gets wasted by such cheap Buck converter when this turning in to heat.

Finally when you do use cheap Buck converter and you do not own a real oscilloscope, your are much happier.     
Rough energy conversion of Buck converter, this can not be truly filtered even if you do add a huge in capacity electrolytic capacitor of 15000uF and current this be just of few Amperes.
DC voltage loaded with parasitic frequencies, it could cause issues if you do try to power with it a portable TV (24V) from a 12V battery.
Therefore to sum up, Buck converters they suffer from thermal losses when they multiply or divide source voltage more than two times (2X).
DC voltage loaded with parasitic frequencies it can power incandescent light bulbs or LED,  or we can use this energy for power conversion purposes.
But personally I would not trust one cheap Buck converter this to charge my costly laptop at 19V.

My personal use of ZS-PD9 this will be for testing electrolytic capacitors up to 60V (63V) specification, my own (quality made) laboratory DC power supply can go up to 35V.
Therefore one Buck converter of few Euros worth, it did saved my day.   ;)

First ever released Bosch AL60 charger this shown in the market at 1992, this charger were designed to be first multi-volt charger this serving battery design of Bosch TYP:
7,2V 2607300001 1,2 Ah
9,6V 2607300002  1,4 Ah
9,6V 2607335176  1,7 Ah
12V  2607335014  1,4 Ah
12V  2607335180  1,7 Ah 
All tuber type ( Knolle accu -> in German ) Ni-CD battery.

Difference of voltage output mostly translates to different length of half to bottom battery pack compartment.
Due pictures comparison it seems that 9,6V battery and 12V are brother models, and this translates that it is very possible 12V version to be easily clip on and be used at 9V power drill.

First released Bosch AL60 charger this came with Bosch label in which word of   ACCU (battery) are capitalized.
This charger can do 4,8V & 7,2V & 9,6V & 12V, Bosch due their Ni-CD cells capacity selection it did limit Amperes output to 1.4A (entire series using 1.4Ah Sanyo).
Such charger also named as 1 Hour Bosch charger at 33W.
Code: 2 607 224 152

Later on, Bosch created first AL 60DV this be identical model to AL60, only difference for Europe this is product label with out German text.

Practically AL60 & AL60DV (rev1) these are well build chargers, both using real transformer and PCB this is using few smart IC and minimal amount thru-hole electronic components.
PCB other than having multi-volt detection, this also using temperature detection due a connection with in-battery located sensor. 
Temperature sensor this is actually a resistor sensitive to temperature change, and resistance changes according to Celsius change.

Soon I am going to have one AL60 (AL60DV rev1) Bosch  2607224226 and detailed pictures will be presented.

Speaking of Bosch, they did produce several products by reusing AL60DV label and by adding further more numbers so to separate models, example AL60DV xxxx.
Such chargers are totally different in many ways and primarily they are incompatible with first AL60 or Rev 1 AL60DV.
Newer AL60DV xxxx these serving different battery case, additionally they use more modern but less reliable pulsing power supply this serving as mains transformer.
Additional issue looks to be that charging of half damaged batteries and because this process lasts longer, several components gets damaged due overheat.

My own research over the internet so me to find just of curiosity, pictures of AL60 (AL60DV rev1), this it did drive me in to pictures of later on made chargers, which several shown symptoms’ of damage.
Interestingly enough it seems that Bosch it did push the envelope of fast chargers to it limit.
I did spotted 4.8A and even 5.6A fast chargers.
Here are some facts that very few are aware of.
Made in Japan Sanyo batteries they were premium quality, but they are not made any more.
Sanyo Ni-CD cells (of the past) were able to tolerate higher charging voltage even up to 1.7V and also to be abused with out damage.
Within 2017 all that we can find this is  “Made in China” compatible Ni-CD, them not build up to highest specifications’ of old SANYO Ni-CD.

Outcome of all latest changes this is that rapid chargers of old days, nowadays they will deteriorate much faster any latest produced “Made in China” compatible Ni-CD cells.

Naturally, charging current this is always related to battery capacity.
Therefore if we do purchase true capacity of 2000mAh (2.0Ah) Ni-CD, then C1 charge this is 2A and any specified as one hour charger this is up to specifications’.

From the other hand all Ni-CD will eventually deteriorate and cell capacity this becomes lesser and lesser.

Therefore and in conclusion, if you do seek for optimal charging current for maxed battery pack life, this is 2.0AH battery with 1.4Ah charger.
At my latest battery rebuild I did wiser choices, here are my capacity tests of true Ni-CD for power tools.  8)
Fresh News.
Regarding rebuild of original Bosch - 2607300002 - Nickel-Cadmium (Ni-Cd) 1500mAh 9.6V, this time I did followed a new route.

I have rebuild my battery pack four times up to date by starting at 2003 ~ 2017, I have carefully separate top and bottom plastics, and I have reunite them by using a tiny aluminum plate this bonded internally at front side, and another two microscopic screws at the back (left & right from anchor clip.

In my last upgrade I did use Ni-CD Cells sold on eBay for cheap at nylon sleeve, unfortunately such batteries they are a marketing scam, listed battery capacity of several thousands  mAh this is fake, and 2500mAh battery this is no more than 1000 mAh.

Now and at my fifth battery rebuild I did make a new choice,  I did purchase one 9,6V pack 2000Ah this compatible for MAKITA tools at 16€ plus 10€ shipping from Germany.
I did specific choice because assembled Ni-CD pack is by 90% identical to Bosch - 2607300002, only change required this is bottom two Ni-CD cells to be turned mechanically as is, so them to comply according to Bosch plastic case.
And final touch this is soldering of Bosch contacts plates ( Plus and minus) on the top of new battery cells.
I am not going to get in finer details of my battery rebuild, because this route it does include improvising and electrician skills, but either way my new choices they did work much better than other times.

Here you may find details of my own recently made  battery capacity tests.

By me selecting this time 2000mAh cells, my old basic charger at 400mA this now translates to five hours of charging.
Fast charger ( 1Hour )  for  BOSCH SR 9.6E cordless drill this is  AL60DV at please see bottom picture  max 12V output ( Real transformer inside).
This AL60DV 4.8V ~12V this is 1.4A , this translates to  1H+35 minutes for 2Ah battery, I am currently looking getting a used one from eBay and test it.
My suggestion is all models of AL60DV 14V and above to be avoided, because if proper voltage detection fails, the battery will be destroyed.
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10


Blog YouTube facebook twitter PayPal Donate Link

ITTSB Blog Sponsors

priniotakis.gr - Electronics division protosnet.com - Internet solutions

2017 Review samples received by

HIOKI EE Corporation - Japan Times Electronics ltd UK Vishay Foil Resistors POWERTRON resistors - VPG DER EE Electrical Instrument Co., Ltd.