ITTSB.EU Blog Forum
Soldering tools | Miscellaneous hand tools | Bench top tools => Miscellaneous hand tools, Workbench improvements => Topic started by: giorgos on January 02, 2013, 07:14:35 PM
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By this time im planning to make a upgrade in a major part of my equipment, starting with hand tools. After searching in net and speaking with many engineers , i decided to buy a set of insulated pliers (knipex).
I knew this brand for quality in products, especially in pliers.
I would like any suggestion about my choice and also a suggestion for buing a quality brand screwdrivers.
http://viewitem.eim.ebay.gr/KNIPEX-VDE-ZangenSet--3tlg-0306180--26-16-200--7006-160-Set-doutillage-VDE-/330686536342/item
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Interesting topic but I am out of suggestions.
My own screwdrivers are a mix of Made in Germany and Made in France, which I have for decades and most of them are Chrome vanadium.
Recently (last year) I got my first high quality side cutter for electronics, and actually I got the top pick of knipex in hardness and antistatic, and just for comparison I got the best from the American market too, which is called as Xuron 9200 Micro-Shear.
The bottom line is that in the end I liked more the American one. :)
Your seller looks to need 10EUR as shipping, and the point is that I have see some Knipex tools in those Praktiker shops that we have in Greece.
May be it worth to check them first and then compare the pricing with eBay.
One rough number as price about such tools in Greece is around 18 EUR its one.
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Yes i already have checked the price in local market and its in the same level with ebay. I post the link for example to have a picture of this item.
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I use and recommend Wera and Wiha. I use a mix of them. I prefer the Grip of my Wera Kraftform Micro, but got some new Wiha screwdrivers for 1Euro (each)..... So maybe check out local markets and closeouts.
These are my standard screwdrivers.
For Attaching enclosures and more standard stuff I use a Wera Zyklop (1/4"). You can switch it to be a screwdriver or ratchet, what is nice when you have to unscrew some bolds or so.
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Yes i know those two brands, i have select them for my final choice also with UNIOR and WITTE. I would choose FACOM too which have high quality products, but i think that is overvalued brand.
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Regarding FACOM and many others, those days we have the problem that the manufacturing in China, it does not produce the same results as it was far back where those brand-names gained publicity and fame.
Generally speaking it was known 20 years back some facts as public saying.
1) The American does not play when he makes hand tools.( quality and strength but bulky)
2) The German always had high quality steel and experience. ( quality and strength )
3) The Japanese is capable with half the portion of the metal, to make it strong enough and optically superior.
4) Made in France ? They was in the fourth place in this race.
5) Do not trust the Italian when he plays with metal.
6) Made in East Europe or Russia = Experimental technology
7) The Greek is the best Beta tester ;D (He uses everything as to was a hammer too.)
From all those sayings nothing stands today, or very few.
When the conversation comes down to isolated screwdrivers, the most freshest marketed series are the most safe to use.
Which naturally they should be selected among the know brand names.
My own father as cars electrician were very demanding regarding the quality and strength of hand tools,
and actually the 55% of the tools that I own today are my inheritance from him.
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Yes i know those two brands, i have select them for my final choice also with UNIOR and WITTE. I would choose FACOM too which have high quality products, but i think that is overvalued brand.
Facon is OK. We have some tools of them which we use on our cars (Ratchets, nuts, and so on). The best heavy duty stuff we used so far was Hazet. They also have a wide range of special tools, but they are more expensive than facom. We also have some very nice stuff from BGS.
For normal use Facom should be fine. If you will use (misuse) it on a regular basis you may check out Hazet or Gedore or so. Be careful when buying premium brands on ebay as those also get copied. So maybe don't buy Hazet or Gedore or so from a chinese ebay supplier.
special for Kiriakos:
7) you may want to have http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VTBdhWKWcg ;)
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special for Kiriakos:
7) you may want to have http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VTBdhWKWcg ;)
I have the older brother of this http://ecatalog-mob.maqprint.fr/produit.php?pro_id=2039 (http://ecatalog-mob.maqprint.fr/produit.php?pro_id=2039) which looks and is indestructible. ;)
The blue case worths today as much as half Rigol DS2072 ;D
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The day of delivery of theese Knipex tools comes closer. Im looking forward to come in my hands , then I will be able to post my first impressions for them.
By now my next purchase will be a new toolcase, probably this:
http://www.voelkner.de/products/19401/Werkzeugkoffer-Silver-Parat-433.000-171-Abmessungen-L-x-B-x-H.html?WT.mc_id=idealo&ref=19&products_model=C92433&utm_source=idealo&utm_medium=CPC&utm_campaign=C92433&WT.mc_id=idealo
and then a set of wiha screwdrivers.
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Regarding the tool-case I did a zoom-in in the main handle of it, and I did not gave me a positive feeling.
Even so I do not have an superior alternative suggestion, but at the range of 30-40EUR the mixed type of wood and plastic cases with curved aluminum corners, they are more than acceptable.
In my hands their life cycle is around 12-14 years.
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My current toolcase is like this one you said, I have it 10 years and it is still in a good condition. The weak point is the internal tool holders, which are very poor and insufficient for all of the tools that i have to carry. Also the overall dimensions are rather small for the rest of my equipment except hand tools.
These disadvantages forced me to look for a bigger case, with many storage choices for hand tools and also more reliable construction for many years using.
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Today i recieved the Knipex set. I ordered it from Ebay , and the total cost was about 62 EUR including shipping cost. In local market after searching the price for the same items was about 75 EUR, so i decided to buy these from ebay. At first glance they seem good having a durable construction and handles made by a very good matterial . Anyway the real and more valid test will take place at working field, with several conditions, and naturally after years i will able to verify, their resist in time.
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Congratulations !! :)
The price difference does not look that significant but if you got the pricing from the Praktiker shop in Greece, you did a wise move to get them direct.
For the side-cutter ( flush cutter) I did pay the price premium to get it from Germany.
About the red one, It was thrown away in a bucked fully covered with cement, and I restored it by spending two hours on it.
It must be 15 years old or more, but it is in pristine condition ;)
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The time for my next order has come. I was planning to buy some screwdrivers and finally i choose them.
I concluded to WIHA brand and I ordered ph0,1,2 and sloted 3,3.5,4.5 and 6.5mm from a greek e shop. The price is very good (about 30 euros + 4 euros post) because 5 screwdrivers of them are included in a set with a cutter , with special price, so i choose them and i added 2 additional types (PH0, 3*80) that i needed.
http://www.gerontisinox.gr/product_1010455-details.aspx
http://www.gerontisinox.gr/product_1012055-details.aspx
http://www.gerontisinox.gr/product_1012003-details.aspx
Propably next week they will come, so i will post related photos.
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They look nice but they do not have insulation capable for use near to Mains voltages.
I do use also naked screwdrivers too, but exclusively regarding servicing electronics, and they are permanently at hanging on my bench.
Are they magnetic ?
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Ι choose them for general use, for electrical works i will buy VDE series like thesse http://www.wiha.com/germany/Onlineshop/Schraubendreher4/Wiha-SoftFinish-R-electric-slimFix.-Saetze
I dont know if they are magnetic, but anyway there is also an accesoir for this
http://www.wihatools.com/400seri/40010ser.htm
I like very much reading tool catalogues but i fell sorry too because i want to buy all of theese stuff ;), but my economics dont allow me :-\
So i follow the way of step by step. Little is better than nothing.
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You have made the mistake to love electronics rather than becoming a farmer with less stress and more stable income.
No worries mate, you will update your tools in the future so many times that you will loose counting. ;D
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Finally screwdrivers came today. I think that my choice was very good as i can see from the first touch with them. The think that impressed me first, was their lightweight (they made of chrome vanadioum molybdenium alloy). Also their handles are perfect, good balanced without any slippery sense. Ι could not forget to mention that the greek e shop that i bought the tools,was very helpful and with excellent service.
So the target for next purchase has already began.
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Other photos of them.
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Nice looking tools, when I will feel the need to update my screwdrivers in the future, I will have a look at the Wiha products range too. :)
Thanks mate.
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Nice! You will have some fun with them and they will last a long time (if you don't abuse them).
I once more learned to like my basic travel set (Wera Zyklop compact) here at installing enclosures.
So it was a good choice to spend a bit more than a cheap kit on ebay.
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Giorgos i wish you many good and usefull time with your set be sure that this set you buy from knipex and wiha can last for many year particularly the front tip of the screwdriver have hardened enough to hold the tough load that you can put from your hand.Be good and stay happy with your buy.
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Thank you very much, i wish you the best too for the multimeter you won and to be useful for your job.
I choosed this tools after much time of searching, cause I was looking for quality and resist in time. Unfortunately the work has reduced this time so I havent utilize them completely. Anyway i hope for better days , the value of theese tools doesnt lost.
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Yes their value last for many good years :)
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After many months, its time for me to continue tools searching.
So combination spanners has their turn now.
I was between Facom and Gedore , but it seems that my final choice will be Gedore.
http://www.gedore.de/flash/ebook/ged_2012/en/index.html#/134/zoomed
The numbers that I mostly use are from 8 to 15 mm, so I have to buy 8 spanners. The cost of them is about 45 Euros and I was thinking to decrease it by omitting some rare used numbers from 8 to 15 mm. Im my work I almost ever use 8 / 10 / 13mm so i have to choose to omitt some from numbers 9/11/12/14.
My question is which numbers from them, are usually rare?
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In my wishlist I have for long time this Coxial Crimping Tool, I was always avoid it due it high cost 30-40EUR locally.
I need it so occasionally that it will never pay it own price.
But now seems available for about 10 EUR shipped.
Therefore I added it back in my eBay wishlist.
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My question is which numbers from them, are usually rare?
That's hard to say.
When I am repairing my motorcycle the frequently used sizes are specific, but when you are freelancer you never know with what you will have to deal with.
Personally I prefer using close type keys because they are safer in the regard of protection for screws & nut heads, especially the ones which are covered by chrome or paint from the factory ( anti corrosion treatment).
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So I think that the right choice for me, is to get all numbers from 8 to 15mm.
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Yes and also I would advice to get an metallic holder for them, the classic one which looks like compressed accordion.
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Well..Im planning to put them into compartments of a toolcase as attaced picture.
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Always there is more than one way regarding tools storage solutions.
The below picture is what I have in mind, and works well with most tool boxes ( heavy metallic or lightweight suitcases).
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Sure I know that kind of holder since I was a kid.
My father (he doesnt live now) has a same holder in his toolbox, and I use to play with it , when he was opening the toolbox in order to fix my bicycle....
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Likewise in heritage from my father too. ;)
Now days I am using them to keep together spare keys.
My main keys set is single size keys of open type and closed polygon.
Like the ones that you plan to get.
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Another interesting kind of tool that I saw in Gedore catalogue, is that ratchet spanner http://www.gedore.de/flash/ebook/ged_2012/en/index.html#/128/zoomed
Have you ever use something like that?
My first thought about this is you can save space in your toolbox with this tool, because you dont have to have an adittional ratchet set.
By the way what is your generally opinion about Gedore tools?
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I do not trust anything that moves. ;D
I believe that a plain polygon key has more chances to get in a tight space than those.
And also the polygon key is useful at the head or nut untighting (first step), the open type one will do all the job.
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Regarding most common sizes, I found this useful table.
https://www.boltdepot.com/fastener-information/Nuts-Washers/Metric-Nut-Dimensions.aspx
According this table, it seems that number 9 and 15 doesnt exists or may be rare. By this way I could modify my choice by choosing 8,10,11,12,13,14,16mm
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In order to complete my screwdrivers set, I ordered additional two Wiha Picofinish.
One PH0x0.75 and one slotted 2.5x0.75. The quality of them was that I expected.
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Do not even remember the date that purchaged two WITTE simmilar in dimention screw drivers which they are alive even today after 25 years.
But they modern ones looks nice too.
http://www.witte-werkzeuge.de/index.php?sid=hfuq2slikoe6qi6s21j03j6015&con_lang=3&con_prod=135&con_kat=112&con_temp=7 (http://www.witte-werkzeuge.de/index.php?sid=hfuq2slikoe6qi6s21j03j6015&con_lang=3&con_prod=135&con_kat=112&con_temp=7)
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I had bought a full set of Witte screwdrivers, at the beginning of 90s , when I was starting my home lab.
Very nice tools, I still own them , like this in photo.
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Giorgos VS Kiriakos = 1-1 ;)
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Lets reactive this topic....
According to the spirit of Christmas, I decided to give a present to myself.
So I finally ordered the toolcase that I always dreaming to buy.
The toolcase is this:
http://www.parat.eu/Cases-Light-IT/Tool-cases-and-bags/Products/Moulded-tool-cases/SILVER/SILVER-moulded-tool-case::31.html?XTCsid=a34583ff780d25e50396240388388fd6
The price for it ,is rather high (~120Euros with shipping) but I think that is worth to afford this money ,for something which I will have in my work for many years.
So I have to wait now to receive it, and to present it when it comes to my hands.
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Yes yes, the spirit did it dirty job again. ;D
Oh well my gift probably is very close by now, after getting it http://www.ittsb.eu/forum/index.php?topic=966.0 (http://www.ittsb.eu/forum/index.php?topic=966.0) I am fully organize for single battery cell diagnosis.
@giorgos you do make weird dreams :) I hope this one to worth it, the company seems dedicated to what it does.
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Toolcase came into my hands, since December 30!
So I had the time to put the box under christmas tree, to follow Greek tradition which says that Ag.Vasilis (santa claus) gives presents to all, every new years day :D
So today I had to put into the toolcase my old tools and the new ones, that I have present in this topic at past.
The quality of this toolcase is excellent , as I was expect, and I hope to get more quality tools to replace the old ones that I still own.