ITTSB.EU Blog Forum
ITTSB Blog Specific => ITTSB - Small projects by Kiriakos & User reviews => Topic started by: Kiriakos GR on August 16, 2012, 09:00:09 PM
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Well those Agilent U1272A & U1273A with the newly shown Eneloop 1500 series AAA, they did become very close friends.
And I am happy all ready but I decided to try one experiment which if it work it would be an amazing solution.
The idea is to add on the holster one solar panel which will act as permanent trickle charger when the meter is just seating out of use in my workshop.
By this way I hope to fight back even the self discharge rate of those NiMH.
Originally what made me think this idea was one tiny solar panel from a flash light, which it found to be very weak to perform this task.
Before few hours I was looking on eBay and I found those theoretically ideal panels with specifications.
6.8V
90mA
Size : 90 mm x 35 mm
The holster it self is 50mm at the narrowest point and there is 92mm available space vertically.
What I hope to succeed is getting 5.5 volts from this panel even with indirect day light.
I will find the truth in few weeks, as soon those panels arrive.
If the results are satisfactory, I will mount them on the holster with dual side tape (professional quality made in UK).
The price of those two panels was 7.86EUR shipped.
By the use of Adobe Photoshop I made one image so to give you the idea of how it will look like.
The panels are covered with protective clear material and so they are protected.
The connection with the batteries will become with flat cable tape, and so I hope that the all idea, it could work out with out any modifications at all.
Another great thing with the holster of the U1270 Series is that under the meter there is rubber points which keeps the meter in to a specific level and the holster haves a clearance of 10mm from touching the bench.
So far everything looks ideal. ;)
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Destination - Greece
The item (RC186281802HK) was posted on 17-Aug-2012 and is being processed for delivery to the addressee.
http://app3.hongkongpost.com/CGI/mt/enquiry.jsp (http://app3.hongkongpost.com/CGI/mt/enquiry.jsp)
It looks like that my eBay seller is a gem about speed. :)
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Greeting Kiriakos!
Great to be in "your home" for a change!
As you can imagine....I really look forward to your solar powered Agilent multimeter project. I love the simple approach and design.
I have quite a few projects around the house with little solar cells similar to the one you have on order and they are a wonderful solution for smaller DC powered projects.
One small step into solar power....has led to another....let it continue good man!
Cheers,
Martin.
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Greeting Martin!
I like to thank you for your gentle push about getting involved with small solar projects. :)
Due the fact that this is my first true attempt, I do feel a bit like my homeboy Icarus.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icarus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icarus)
But I will watch out the sun to not melt my wings too. ;D
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I think you will fly high!
I'm using my U1272A at the moment to monitor a little solar project and battery life is becoming an issue (still far better than the Fluke 287!). When time allows I might consider doing the same as well....although I need to get my Fluke 287 into a "happy state" first! :)
Cheers,
Martin.
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My panels arrived today from China, that is 11 days a new world record. :)
The panels looks good and even about the dimensions part, I did 100% the correct choice.
On the top of the active surface there is a protective soft nylon (clear) that must be removed, but I will not remove it yet, and so accept my apologies about the blurred full of bubbles look of those panels.
I had very few time to play with them today.
In a very quick test, I manage to get the 6.4V with out load.
And 3.5V at 62mA of load, that I did not liked that much as first impression.
Later on I will do a more precise testing on them.
For the time enjoy the pictures . ;)
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Gentlemen !! ;)
The precise testing payed out.
I have a bag of 50 white bright LED and resistors which I got for a project that I never started.
Its LED plus resistor at 5.000V it needs 6.0mA ( confirmed that with many single LED + resistor pairs).
The next step was to use this load so to see how the panel respond to it.
And so I made one list of measurements that shows the truth about this panel.
And I ended up with those results of mA of load VS DC volts panel output.
28mA = 6.0V
47mA = 5.6V
56mA = 5.43V
65mA = 4.96V
Those numbers look very promising that my idea it will work / succeed. ;)
I very happy with those results mostly because I am not in danger to become a laughing stock. :P
Because I am a bit busy those days this project in not top priority.
But as soon I will have more info about it I will post it here.
What matters to me the most, is to find all the small details so to make this to work with out any need about modifying the multimeter in any way, not even a small drill hole on it.
All those details require lots of thought and the right materials.
For now have a look at my interesting pictures, and have a good laugh about my solar transformer LOL ;)
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The next thing that you learn as soon you start playing with panels is the Schottky diodes.
The most famous one looks to be the IN5819 and so I did order some of those too.
Who knows? if I do enjoy the results of this project, I could possibly move in to something bigger later on, like a portable solar charger. ;)
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Hello Kiriakos,
after a long time a post again, I had some troubles, I moved and I got new job, so now I can again dedicate my time to electronics.
Today I bought similar solar panel (polycristaline) from Conrad and I paid 13€. As for specs go it says: 6V at 150mA which should be ideal for powering things and recharging some batteries. When I get some sun I will test it and provide results under load.
Elvis
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Hello Elvis,
It is nice to having you back. :)
Oh my, Conrad ripped you ? :P
at list you got it with out waiting 2 weeks.
I am waiting for the diodes to arrive so to continue my project.
Luckily I got locally as gift one DC/DC mobile phone charger, the one that takes 2X1.5V AA and gives an output of 5V.
If for any reason I change my mind, I could try my panels in parallel and make a charger.
I have also some ideas about a simple project as load tester for such panels.
But I will not say more for the time.
About your panel start a new topic by having as title (for example) : Solar panel 10x14 200mA 5V review.
And add you findings there, I would love read your news about it.
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Thanks for advice,
I definetly will do a topic like you said, once when I do the measurements and take some photos.
About ripping me off, I have no clue, I am just in dilema if it will costs me less to buy those little things from ebay or from local dealer like Conrad.
I still need to get multimeter, and sadly I also become "scopeless" since I had to sell it due to moving issues and bills. Hope in future I can get another one, maybe some cheap DSO.
Elvis.
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Today is 14 of September, and finally some blessed rain fall in my city, the summer was totally dry in my location.
The sky is covered with white bright clouds and the sun is fully covered.
I am still waiting for my large pack of diodes to arrive, and so I just thought to test those small panels under a cloudy weather.
My measurements shown that the solar panel is totally incapable with cloudy weather to produce any usable energy.
My measurements shown that the panel with out even any load, it was NOT capable to give more than 4.5V when in a good day it was producing 6.4V
I also made one second measurement with just one LED as load .
And I got 3V at 0.60mA that is just half milliampere.
By observing those numbers in comparison with the ones that I got under bright Sunshine as 65mA at 4.96V,
what comes in mind as conclusion is that those solar panels its like Go or No-Go operation.
Which brings to mind the picture of a very narrow logarithmic scale.
Probably I sound like a kid who discovers the world, but it is almost that way about solar panels.
Marketing agents of solar energy products are trying to convince the new customers that one solar panel installation is capable to offer linear output even at cloudy days, my measurements at this small scale test, proves that this is a fake advertising.
Thankfully Greece haves about 95% per year sunny bright days, which helps the solar energy production tremendously.
Even so I do love those measurements and comparisons, as we say = Food for thoughts. ;)
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Jepp, solar panels vary pretty much in output depending on the brightness. I saw the same behaviour with some 50W Panels I was working on.
On a sunny day or setup was enough to keep a small netbook running and collect data, but just a few clouds and the output dropped considerably. So we skipped the netbook option and stayed with our small datalogger as that one just needed a few mA's to run properly.
and believe me......if you really need the data from long time logging you wouldn't play around with some testdrives (will it work or not) and cross your fingers to get them ;).
I am thinking about, maybe, a solution with a Lipo from the RC shop to run my meters for really long logging periods. They come quite cheap and go up up to 5500mAh. That would improve the runtime a lot I guess (compared to the 300mAh or 800mAh from normal rechargables)
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The subject about extended time data logging and data loggers, worth's having its own topic. :)
While those Agilent meters they can greatly assist as data loggers,
for extremely long duration of data logging, I do consider as waste of resources about keeping as slave for this job one so talented meter.
Unfortunately the pricing about dedicate data loggers it does flying high in some situations.
Either way for my needs about data logging the U1270 series is all that I need, and the solar panel addition will give them the ultimate perfectness ;) I am almost 98% positive that my idea will work out.
What I am looking to find right now is flat tape cable that I can use solder on it.
I have one piece from a CD player that I have take apart, which it does the job about passing from the battery cover with out stressing anything.
But I am also ready for a plan B, that is a copper foil and heartstrings tubes. ;)
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I totally agree that for long term logging a dedicated datalogger is the better choice. Well, sometimes I just need to watch the sensor output or battery voltage of a system for some days and here a logging Multimeter is veeeery handy.
I already have it, it doesn't need a separate battery or drain the system battery as most dataloggers do, it is compact and robust.
For example:
We had installed some climatological stations in the tree canopy in central french guyana. These systems had a solar power supply (5W Panels) which recharged the battery for the logger and its attached sensors. As we wouldn't stay there for three years, I had to climb up there, install them and check that they could run without regular maintenance. So I needed to watch the battery voltage over a period to see if it drops rapidly and the stations would be out of order or if it would be stable (at least for some month to bring in a freshly recharged battery).
At that point I didn't have a logging multimeter and so I used one of the loggers channels to measure the battery voltage. As our loggers were running on an 60s interval this was ok. But then someone suggested to lower the interval to 30s. So we needed to measure again and loose one channel of the logger.
So that meant....climbing up there in the canopy....playing around with these little Compact Flash cards and hope to to loose on when changing.....go down.....check the data.....and wait for the next change to compare the data.
Honestly...I would have loved to plugin my meter, let it log for about five to six days and watch the tendency without the risk of loosing the data.
Today i quite often use it to monitor a freshly calibrated sensor and compare it to what the USB-Aquisition box reads out. Or is use it to have a finer logging-interval when we work there at night.
Well, I would never have the idea to use it as logger on our stations as real logger as it really is wasted resources then. We measure voltage (rH&T Sensors, Radiation Sensors), Resistance (rH&T...psychrometer, Leaf Wetness grids, Soil humidity), Pulses (rain, wind) and so we never need a diode check or so then.
We use some campbell CR1000x for that and I really love those fellows. Reliable, low battery consumption, packed with features and a lot of possible attachments. If you really want long time logging (months or years)....these fellows are the way to go ;)
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About my solar mini project...
My pack of 20 x Schottky IN5819 arrived today, and soon this project will start moving again.
The diodes have the KED marking as brand.
In a quick test with the U1273A at the diode mode (Auto mode) the meter reported those diodes as Bad.
It took me some time to realize, that the meter is programed to identify common diodes which have specific resistance and properties.
An simple measurement at the Ohms mode shown by compering a standard diode against a Schottky, an significant difference.
Schottky IN5819 = 9.4 K Ohm
Common IN5401 = 2.4 M Ohm
While at the common diode range the measurement shown.
Schottky IN5819 = 0.198 V
Common IN5401 = 0.534 V
It looks like that Agilent needs to add on the U1270 series and a special range of Pass-Fail for the Schottky diodes. ;)
For the time I am a bit busy about the mini review of the Agilent process calibrator,
but I will post updates about the solar project soon. ;)
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Here is my very basic How-to. ;)
Materials:
1) Flex ribbon 2 x 10Cm long ( salvaged from a dead scanner) with three wires its one stripe.
2) Just a bit of Sekisui 5760 Thermal Tape (dual side) so the stripes which attaching the panel to be locked in place.
3) Professional grade double side tape (automotive - rubber to metal) yes it is very expensive.
Now have a look at the pictures.
The inner placement of the diode and the flex strips was very easy.
About soldering directly on the three lines of its flex strip was easy too, just needs to be fast at soldering.
One quick measurement at the batteries at 50% charge shown 4.8V
And also 1.5V after the diode (Indoor lights).
The meter is ready to face the sun, the only problem is that currently the weather is rainy.
I will do one last follow up about the gain of this setup, and a bit of self data logging, will be involved too. ;)
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Nice! I am curious how it will work. Maybe route the wires out and use the logging mode of the U1272A to log the batteryvoltage over time ;)....
Then you could check how the system drops down at night and how fast it recovers.
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I did try to make it to take one self measurement of it is own batteries and I got OL at 1000V. ;D
With just the positive lead on, it measured 3.2V that is a fake reading.
I think that even the U1270 series works in a similar way with the digital panel meters which need one dedicated power source too. (isolation from the input terminals)
Now I am using the Fluke 28II to measure the voltage, but the next step is to use the U1272A so to data log the U1273A charging cycle.
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Ah yeah, you're absolutely right. I didn't think of the galvanic isolation.
Well, as you're in Greece....maybe you'll eventually get infected with the Photovoltaic virus and do some playing ;).
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My next steps will be three basic measurements.
a) Charging current with indirect sun light.
b) Charging current with direct sun light.
c) Gain of both methods in 30 minutes time.
If you have any good idea of how to convert my Honda 250CC semi-enduro to solar powered, let me know. ;D
One litre of gasoline is at 1.80EUR (regular)
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uuuui 1,80 is tough. I don't know how much regular is listed here at the moment but I guess about 1,65. We just filled our truck yesterday at 1,49 (Diesel).
Converting your bike....Hmmm, the motor shouldn't be that much a problem....but the batteries ;). It's always been a challenge ;)
In fact some people did it.....but not solar yet. Well, you could try the Tesla-Idea.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/tesla-motors-launches-revolutionary-supercharger-032000226.html
at least one company is working on the energy supply problem....and I find it rather interesting that it's an US company (as the USA is always told to be oil-ruled and polluting). Let's hope they can keep that system up and won't cut it down one day due to costs.
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As soon I will manage to get one good oscilloscope for the ITTSB, the next plan will be to add electrical assistance on my common bicycle, it would cost around 200EUR, but it is more easy to do. :)
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Who will believe that since the day that I did the final mounting of the panel, I have all those days rain and heavy cloudy weather !! :(
Even so today with only 70% sun quality due one period which the clouds was have one opening, and the atmosphere was a bit blurred, I did my first attempt to data log the gain.
The graph shows clearly one raising curve ( Almost good sun) and after about 40 minutes the sun was blocked from dark clouds.
The U1272A was logging the volts, and the Fluke 28II was monitoring the mA after the diode.
I am optimistic that this setup it can perform ever better.
Today I got one gain of 150mV for 30 minutes, hourly is the double.
I will repeat my tests and I will gather more facts.
On the positive news is that this panel it keeps the multimeter alive just by it self. :)
5,36 is the voltage of the four fully charged Nimh (by the charger). ;)
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It looks that God loves me up to a point. ;D
I got today just two hours of acceptable quality sun light for my experiment.
The quick summary is that 100 minutes of sun light was capable to bring the batteries charge from the 40% up to 90%.
And I am talking about the combined productive curves of both logging sessions.
Another interesting factor is the mV loss due the diode which is 300mV.
Last but also interesting is the drop which caused by 99% by the batteries, when the voltage started to raise more than 5.3V (Green line).
I do feel so happy, that today I will install my second panel at the U1272A too.
If this is the gain even under partially cloudy sky, then this setup it can perform and even better, and so I can trust it.
I am ready to scream .... Success !! ;)
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Today I was having almost perfect sunlight conditions even for a beginning of winter.
It is known that among other things Greece haves lots of sun light in comparison with any European country.
Here are my thoughts divided in titles.
a) The solar panel.
I got lucky with it about physical dimensions VS output in Watt.
At 5V it did see a peak at 67mA, but the average Max output is 60-62mA.
The peak voltage with a diode connected is at 5.8V, which is good enough as target voltage for charging those Nimh.
b) Nimh charge.
By having the solar panel as charger which is 90% capable for what a perfect charge requires, I had the chance to actually study the way which the batteries behave when they are getting charged, and even to record with data logging all their behavior.
As soon the voltage got up to 5.36V the panel was able to give 20mA which was not enough to top up the batteries even further.
By powering up the multimeter (U1273A) the battery indicator shown 100% of charge.
By testing one battery of the four with my professional battery tester (with load), it shown 90% of charge at 1.30V.
Generally speaking those results looks great, this multimeter will never run out of power no matter the percentage of the top up charge limit.
c) The U1273A / Power on / consumption.
By having the Fluke 28II to monitor the charging current, it was easy as toy to measure and the consumption of the meter.
By removing the batteries and just with the solar panel the meter boot up and feels very happy, even the battery indicator stays at 100% just by the sun even at the maximum OLED brightness level.
OLED Max = 32mA
OLED Normal = 30mA
OLED Low = 22mA
This panel is double in Watts than what the meter needs as power, and so the booting up and operation just by the power of sun is 100% guaranteed.
d) The results with the U1273A which requires a bit more mA that the U1272A are so acceptable that with out second thoughts I did the installation of the second solar panel at the U1272A too.
Today both meters are loaded with solar panels and both look great too.
The truth is that I got also lucky about the placement of the panel at the back, the meter haves rubber feet which keep the panel away from touching the bench or at any surface under the meter, in other words it is safe and well protected.
e) The total cost of the needed materials is no more than 10EUR about two solar panels and diodes.
The latest Sanyo Eneloop 1800 series are not expensive either, and they are the best rechargeable batteries for multimeters due their low self recharge characteristics, I could even say that they are even better than what is needed today by the people which regularly user their meters, and the self discharge never was an issue to them.
As last I have to say that my idea about the placement of the panel and the wiring,
It does not affect the meter safety in any way, and even the batteries they can be removed and charged with a fast charger too.
Success … Success … Success … 8)
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One happy moment to remember, Agilent (Europe) liked my project too !! :)
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This modification turned out really good, I like very much the end result.
I am interested to learn more details on the solar panels you have used. Are you satisfied with the overall quality of the panel? Is it sturdy enough? Well, I see that it has a PCB backing, so it should resist twisting and bending, but I am wondering if you ever felt you could brake it when handling it. How about scratches or dirt? Is it scratch resistant or you need to be careful not to place the multimeter with it's back down on an uneven surface? Dirt/dust washes off easily or leaves traces behind? (well, maybe too soon to tell...)
Can you share the link from the buyer you ordered it from?
Thanks, George
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Dear George.
Yes electrically my combination of materials it does work well.
The mechanical straight of this setup it is related with the working environment that the meter lives in, plus other factors like how its person handles their tools.
Personally I use always soft bag or hard cases to protect my measurement instruments.
The safe transportation of them from site to site is an important factor to me.
Those solar panels are inexpensive and easy to replace, but I will install one screen protector (PDA screen) as extra shield.
About a source for buying those panels there is plenty, the dimensions will lead any one to get an identical solar cell.
I do not whish to make publically known the ebay seller that I got those panels.
He was had them listed as more powerful in a way about the volts output, when most others was more honest on that.
I did shown trust that I am getting something better than the average ones, and I got mislead in the end.
My own measurements are in a way some hard evidence about the true output of the specific solar cell product.
About me as soon I will have some spare cash I am going to buy a second soft case for the U1273A, and actually the Agilent one, which is extremely well designed for it.
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About a source for buying those panels there is plenty, the dimensions will lead any one to get an identical solar cell.
I do not whish to make publically known the ebay seller that I got those panels.
He was had them listed as more powerful in a way about the volts output, when most others was more honest on that.
I did shown trust that I am getting something better than the average ones, and I got mislead in the end.
My own measurements are in a way some hard evidence about the true output of the specific solar cell product.
About me as soon I will have some spare cash I am going to buy a second soft case for the U1273A, and actually the Agilent one, which is extremely well designed for it.
OK, I understand. Yes, I can see what you mean, I share your passion for clean, organized instruments, ready for use when needed. (I have noticed you do the same for your hand tools.)
And you know what, I just realized by seeing the photo above how neat is the design of that meter.
I haven't noticed before that it had sockets for the leads to snap-on behind the meter, so to keep them nice and tidy!
When reading reviews of DMMs I mostly focus on the specs and the display, and I usually consider secondary the usability and overall design of the meter. From now on my eye will be more observant on these matters.
I have to go back and check more carefully some reviews; myself I am trying to save money to get a nice new modern multimeter, but I also need a power supply and a function generator, so we will see what I will get first...