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Author Topic: History facts Tektronix DMM4050 & Fluke 8846A 6.5 digit warranty / repair 2019  (Read 606 times)

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Online Kiriakos GR

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By using a third party data loggers software I did succeed gaining more understanding regarding Histogram analysis.

Basically, Histogram at 8846A and of all it brothers, this seems as a toy because it is missing the information of measuring range per its Column.
Due my own testing, I am now aware of minimum measuring range that such a Column can have.

This DMM it has true resolution of 8 1/2 digits,  at Histogram mode,  measured values are limited to 6 1/2 digits resolution, but these Columns it does include 8 1/2 resolution information, and also Standard Deviation measurement this is the only open window so to review 8 1/2 digits resolution of this DMM.

HISTO - GRAM  this is a GREEK definition ( HISTORY + GRAMI ) = ( History + straight line)  = History recorded by straight lines.

It is possible these two pictures bellow to help your understanding, a little more, if you see a Histogram this be rotated at it Time Axis.

In a ideal world, it is possible a voltage reference to demonstrate just a 1uV of fluctuation within 500 taken samples, in such a scenario Histogram will present a single Column
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Online Kiriakos GR

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SCHURTER KG10 or KG10.6101.151 ( IEC C14 ) Power entry module review
« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2019, 06:18:11 PM »
SCHURTER KG10 or  KG10.6101.151 ( IEC C14 ) this is the full description of this  Power entry module without line filter at the back of these DMM.

Originally I thought to research and discover my options, in case which I will need to replace this power switch.

My search started with keywords KG10, then I did realize that this is a SCHURTER product, and after of several hours of additional research, I did the final discovery that SCHURTER does not offer replacement part of single power switch for this module.

Instead they try selling entire power entry module at high price due a few retail channels to any one seeking just one.

KG 10 in quantity of 1000 it will cost you 3.5 Euro.
While build quality of KG10 this is upon high standards, neither it silver plated Mains voltage switch and neither it build quality of fuse drawer alone, these can justify 20 euro retail price, when a made in PRC  IEC C14  plug and switch this has a cost of 1.5 euro shipped.

SCHURTER this brand thinks as supplier for industry customers, it does follow certifications, and within 2016 ~ 17 they do deliver newer KG10 with improved fireproof housing.

I did a product sample request to SCHURTER, among other details which I wish to inspect, I need to make contacts resistance measurement at totally unused product, so to become aware of absolute lowest values.

Below it is my KG10 (parts and details).   :)

Regarding voltage compatibility within EU, in the question of using 220 or 240V setting, the answer it is not that clear.
Over voltage this is considered anything above 220V +6% but even so this is not considered as decision factor.
Practically selection of 220V setting this will serve better speaking of tolerances at under voltage condition, and for this reason alone it is recommended using 220V transformer input tap.
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Online Kiriakos GR

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Re: SCHURTER KG10 or KG10.6101.151 ( IEC C14 ) Power entry module review
« Reply #12 on: April 01, 2019, 12:30:25 PM »
I have good news to share  :)

SCHURTER HQ Lead Qualifier, accepted my sample request and product this is shipped today with TNT economy.

Therefore my very own exploration of KG10 quality standards by the use of highest quality Milliohm Meter  RM3542A
(from HIOKI Japan) this will happen soon.    8)
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Online Kiriakos GR

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Re: SCHURTER KG10 or KG10.6101.151 ( IEC C14 ) Power entry module review
« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2019, 01:18:21 PM »
Did you known that Switzerland this is NOT EUROPE ? 
Even so there is a hidden LAW this aloud Duty-Free if your item worth less than 4.5 EUR, this is equal to a chocolate bar from not a famous brand  :P

Lesson learned, even for free samples from Switzerland,  be aware of 30 EUR customs clearance Fee, in case that your item does not qualify as Duty Free.

In conclusion this project came close to get canceled because of importation fee, but after explaining to local authorities product value and details, their positive decision this now aloud this project to be continued and completed.  :)   
 
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Online Kiriakos GR

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Re: SCHURTER KG10 or KG10.6101.151 ( IEC C14 ) Power entry module review
« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2019, 09:01:03 PM »
As first I wish to thanks Schurter for this product sample.   :)

My very own afterthought for requesting such a sample was for me to discover switch contacts resistance of a 100% healthy switch and also to perform a second inspection  measurement, this be usable by a troubleshooter , so him to be able to make a judgment of this module health status.

Most usual thing and thought, this is people buying also a used DMM, while we all pay attention to inspect a used multimeter in the regard of measurements’ accuracy, exterior product condition, most ones never think that mains power switch condition this has great importance too.

An mains power switch with issues, this can be the cause so sparks at contacts area to appear, such a sparking event it can influence power supply stability, and a multimeter or Oscilloscope this introducing noise when it does measurements’.

From my experiences, a failing power switch this be in the input of a pulsing power supply, it will introduce noticeable noise at DCV rails these feeding an oscilloscope.
Review of known clean Test waveforms will become a challenge, because all waveforms on screen will now appear with noise. 

Now the same failing power switch, if this feeding an classic transformer it would not demonstrate fast to notice side-effects, but eventually sparking will increase temperature and the danger of starting a fire.
But among possibilities there is and another one, some people discovered that while their benchtop multimeter was on soft-power mode (VFD was OFF), when them returned the next day, the meter was turned on.
If Mains voltage did not interrupted due power company issues, then the power switch it self, this started failing.
 
DMM4050, 4040, 8845A & 8846A all using analog DCV regulation among with switching power supply for the VFD Dot matrix display,  now increased noise at the side of switching power supply, this it could possibly increase noise floor at mV measurements and or other issues.

Therefore and in conclusion, a good inspection of power switch condition this will save you the day.
     
At specific Schurter power module, power switch this is permanently attached and soldered, in my review I could hardly find clean copper area so to place my Kelvin clips directly at power switch leads.
Even so I did manage to get a good repeatable measurement, and now I am aware that contacts resistance this is 0.5 milliohm.   
 
My second mission was less difficult, I did select most easily accessible area for Kelvin clips installation, and now this new 3 milliohm measurement this is what every one can use as comparison point.

From today any troubleshooter and visitor of ITTSB blog, he may perform two measurements’ and discover health status of this power switch.
First test lead it should be placed over IEC plug pin, and the second test lead it should touch center pad of fuse holder.
Then just repeat this test with second active IEC plug pin and relative fuse holder pad.
Such an inspection it is now possible with out taking off DMM case, and by this way you may find the truth by not destroying calibration sticker at the bottom of the DMM.

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Regarding Schurter this is a very reliable products maker, but most retail customers can hardly find reasonably priced goods because all three web-shop distributors and their international sales partners, they acting very hostile regarding retail prices.
I did find KG10 this priced at 23 EUR for a single unit, and shipping pricing will add another 18 EUR at least, this makes a total of 41 EUR which I will describe as severe violation of anything called as reasonable price tag.
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Online Kiriakos GR

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Due this message I wish to inform any troubleshooter taking seriously contacts resistance measurements,  that he may also read my article  Best multimeter for DPST Rocker Switch contacts resistance? 

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Online Kiriakos GR

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Here I will present an issue relative to DMM4050 display Filter  tint and brightness.
I am researching for two months by asking Fluke factory and Tektronix about the date that production factory this stop using Blue Tint VFD filter?

Blue Tint VFD filter this is unreasonably dark, a poor product design and decision of Tektronix which this ended approximately at April 2013, since then and after any newer produced models they carry a Green Tint VFD filter.

Green Tint VFD filter this is what FLUKE DMM models using from the start.
My very own used DMM4050 this production of January 2013, this arrived with Blue Tint VFD filter, immediately I did notice how terrible this is regarding reduced brightness at not acceptable, even under using only in-door lights (at night).

It is unfortunate that FLUKE and Tektronix both do not recognize their old mistake.
Reasonable response would be a newer produced Green Tint VFD filter to be sent free of charge as replacement at any customer whom considers earlier Blue Tint VFD filter as problematic.

While both companies they did not deliver answers in my question, I did discover the truth by my self after cooperating with another ITTSB blog member whom he did sent me pictures of his own DMM4050, this is two months newer production from my own DMM4050.
 
FLUKE were kind to inform me of recent inventory spare-parts codes, which they can deliver to consumers’  (TEK branded parts).

3476886   4050-2014,LENS 
3476939   4040-8003,FRONT PANEL DECAL 

3476988    4020-2010,FRONT BOOT
3476963    4020-2008,HANDLE

S1 - 8846A-8001,KEYPAD 2454042

944277    FILTER PART ,FILTER,LINE,PART,FUSE DRWR W/SHRT BAR
944272    FILTER PART ,FILTER,LINE,PART,VOLTAGE SELECTOR


Since begging of April 2019, I am now trying to discover how prepared Tektronix Europe this is at handling such spare parts requests.
a) Are they keeping any stock of spare parts in Europe?
b) Are they aware of spare parts codes and pricing?

Head office of entire Europe this is in Poland.
Mr. Maciej Holubowicz he is in charge, we did exchange emails, and now I expecting for final answers.
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Online Kiriakos GR

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If some one advice’s you to read complete user manual of your new DMM this is because there is no other way of you to get truly familiarized with it. 

I will not give free fish but I will motivate ITTSB Blog readers to connect Trigger I/O output with nothing less than a workhorse oscilloscope, and then you will be able to verify measurement per second execution or also this described as measurement rate.
Its one completed measurement this delivers a confirmation Trigger signal.
By measuring in the unit of time total amount of confirmations, you are now able to verify measurement rate.

Testing process this is identical as when we inspect oscilloscope frame rate Wfms/s.
Sum of completed waveforms they are measured by the use of a frequency counter.

The only limitation here this is limited ability of oscilloscope it self at capturing lower signals than 2Hz update rate, but this is nothing major as obstacle, you may use oscilloscope memory so this to record slower signals and measure the update rate on screen with out expecting frequency counter this to deliver the measurement.

First oscilloscope screenshot this is single Trigger I/O pulse, other screenshots these are my tests under DCV measurements’ under specific NPLC.

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Offline Andrew-88

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I am now officially Owner of a used DMM4050.  8)

Hi Kiriakos, congratulations for getting your BeNcH tOp DMM  :) 8)
It is obvious that wile specific DMM hardware this is according to your own high standards (or close enough), your smile was traumatized by discovering poor customer support performance offered by Tektronix.

From purchase date of your used DMM, that is two months of ownership so far, you did a great job at finding of what Tektronix this hiding under the carpet:
DMM4000 series with out software, a dark unusable Lens were installed at older produced DMM and Tektronix customer support this looks unprepared to handle a single spare part purchase request.

I think that all eyes are over your activities right now.
In the end of the day if Tektronix wants to join list of brands with appalling customer service, neither you can stop them.

Online Kiriakos GR

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Hi Kiriakos, congratulations for getting your BeNcH tOp DMM  :) 8)

Thanks mate !

I did count my own buying decision over several factors, one of them was trouble free purchase of spare parts related to aesthetics improvements.
Either in new products or used ones, accidents happen,  you may need a knob or a filter? or to replace the handle.
 
Yes my smile this is temporarily traumatized, because I have feelings for my tools,  other than great performers they should have acceptable appearance.
For my third U1272A which I got it used from UK end of 2018, purchasing from Keysight Partner in Greece of a new top cover with knob this was not difficult.
This month I am expecting delivery. 

In the positive side of things, I never had before a DMM this be capable for Volt and Ampere measurements at the same time either.  8)   
   
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